For Small Indies, Dweck Aims to Be Agent of Change
Hannah Dweck and Ted Schaefer discuss how they vet filmmakers, their producing approach, and the opportunities they see in distribution.
In 2016, Hannah Dweck was making her first short film, and she needed a producer. A friend working at Huffington Post recommended Ted Schaefer, who was freelance directing and producing comedy videos for the site at the time. The two immediately hit it off, and after making the short, they continued collaborating. By 2018, Schaefer was preparing to make his first feature, Giving Birth to a Butterfly, and Dweck was getting ready to make her first feature documentary, Guest House, and they decided it would be smart to create a formal entity for their projects. And that’s when they created Dweck Productions.
Initially, the production company was just going to be for their own projects. But then Jane Schoenbrun, whom Schaefer had been friends with for a while, came to them with a project called We’re All Going to the World’s Fair. “We read the script and we were like, ‘This is amazing,’” Dweck recalls. So they joined as executive producers. The film premiered at Sundance in 2021, and it quickly attracted glowing reviews and a cult enthusiasm. The experience was rewarding for Dweck and Schaefer, and it opened doors, such that now producing and executive producing other filmmakers’ work is a big part of what they do. The company has an impressive roster of small independent films under its belt, including Dustin Guy Deffa’s The Adults, H.P. Mendoza’s The Secret Art of Human Flight, Tyler Taorima’s Christmas Eve in Miller’s Point, and, most recently, Haley Elizabeth Anderson’s Tendaberry (available to stream on Mubi) and Joel Potrykus’s Vulcanizadora (now in select theaters). “As we’ve grown, the mantra has always been, ‘We want to help movies we like get made in any way we can.’” Schaefer says. “And the only way we decide if we'll do a movie is if both of us like the movie. Not external factors.”
When I spoke to Dweck and Schaefer, Vulcanizadora was beginning a limited theatrical run and they were prepping for Schaefer’s next feature, which was a week from production. We discussed how they vet filmmakers, their producing approach, and the opportunities they see in distribution.
Going back to World's Fair, can you tell me what your role looked like on that film?
Hannah Dweck: Primarily, we were the majority financier for the film. And because it was also our first time playing that role, we were pretty hands off. We sent some script notes at the time. We were allowed to see cuts of the edit and give notes that way. They involved us in the sale. We were collaborative throughout the process, but we had a more hands off approach than we would now if we were given a project like that. And also, Sarah Winshall and Carlos Zozaya, who produced that film, were doing such a great job that it was a great opportunity to learn a lot from them.
Tell me more about that. What were you learning from them?
Ted Schaefer: We just did another movie with Sarah, and we did another movie with Carlos a couple of years ago. My background is mostly assistant directing, but I had done a bunch of things on set, so I had produced other things. And after Butterfly, I had a decent understanding of producing. But people like Sarah that we've been able to work with take it to another level. She has a wealth of experience. Understanding how she sets up and runs things was really useful.
HD: Even her communication with us. How she talked to us. Her knowledge going into festivals and then sales. She had done it from start to finish. And just watching her strategy, how you submit to festivals.
What was her strategy?
HD: Starting off the season with Sundance — and we were lucky enough to premiere there. I think often when people first submit to festivals, myself included, you think, "I'm going to submit to a ton right off the bat." And that's a costly thing to do. But Sarah was like, "No, let's start with Sundance. Let's see where we get. Because if we get into Sundance, it'll propel us and change the way we're going to interact with festivals. But if we don't, then we'll have to do a little more pounding the pavement.” And when we started with sales, Sarah was looking at the offers from a place of knowledge, and she set expectations in a way that was helpful.
What did Sarah and Carlos's on-set producing look like? What things were important to them in terms of creating a good set and good crew morale?
TS: A lot of it is preparation. You need to know how and what to prepare for. Making sure the cast has good holding room locations and that you're set up properly and that you're not over-working the crew. I think the best thing you learn the more you produce is that being transparent is really important. I think some producers are hesitant to do that. But if the crew knows what they're signing up for, they're much less likely to get pissed when things happen.
That set was run fairly smoothly, and a lot of it was making sure that Jane and Dan Carbone, the DP, were on the same page and had done enough prep so they knew exactly what the style was and how things were going to shift if they were running out of time. We also had an incredible AD in Willy McGee. Crew morale is such a big thing. And a lot of is just personality. I think Sarah's a great personality, and the crew feels like they can trust her and ask her things and she will fight for them. Especially on movies like this, you don't want to be bossing people around. It has to be a conversation.
Read Sarah Winshall on creating the LA Festival of Movies…
You mentioned that these days you would usually be more hands-on. So I'm wondering what that looks like.
HD: I think we really bring knowledge based on experience to a project. So we want to be capital-P producers a lot, even if we're not on-the-ground producing, just because that gives you access to certain conversations where we have experience to add.
TS: We also have different relationships now, and can help get certain things or position a film by talking to different programmers or sales agents. We have a film that's going to Tribeca now, and we've done a lot of work with that team trying to help guide them.
HD: One of the things that is incredibly beneficial to small films is being able to have some key players who are overqualified for the job. A lot of times on these films you think about being scrappy. And you do have to be scrappy. But every film, no matter what size it is, needs a certain amount of support and know-how. That's something that's really fun and gratifying to bring to smaller films now. We help teams that aren't as experienced when they're looking for certain crew or certain people to help with post, etc.
Are there certain areas of the crew that you feel are most important to have someone with a lot of experience? What are the keys to success for those films from early-career filmmakers?
TS: It'll depend a little based on the project and the experience of the director. Because sometimes it'll be a first-time director but they've done a bunch of shorts and that might mean that visually they have a very strong idea of how they'll shoot it, and then it's like, "You need a great AD, but you could bring on your DP who maybe hasn't shot as much." So it's figuring out with the director and the producers, where are the different holes? And that's the thing we've gotten very good at. We can help evaluate where the lack of experience is to make sure there's a crew member who's so good that they can help support you.
Are there certain mistakes that you see first-time directors making a lot that you try to head off?
TS: Yeah. Even when I was an AD, I saw it a lot. One is not trying to shoot the movie at the budget you have. Really understanding what that means. And then, we haven't had a lot of experience with this, but you do see a lot of first time directors who don't really know what they're trying to express or don't have a clear enough idea. Or the flip side is you have a really clear idea but you won't give up on details that aren't as important. And those are things that it takes experience to go, "This feels so important to you — the color of this curtain. But actually, that's not the thing you should be worried about." We try to do a lot of work ahead of time to make sure the directors aren't getting in their own way like that. We talk it through — this is what happens a lot of the time. It's good to have those conversations preemptively.
HD: Being flexible is a number one requirement for trying to make a small film. Because most of the time, if you lose a location or a key crew member, whatever replaces that location or person ends up being even better. Seeing those obstacles that are going to come your way as opportunities — even if that sounds very cliche — is very important. Or else, you're going to be so frustrated in a way that will be prohibitive to the success of the film — and also the vibes on set. If you are flexible and want to hear people's ideas during times of crisis… that's why your crew is there.
How do you have that conversation with a director where it resonates with them rather than them being on the defensive?
TS: A lot of it is approaching it as, "What are your priorities?" We frame it as making sure we're protecting the most important thing. "Tell us what's the most important thing generally, and then within certain scenes. We'll make sure that all happens. Some of the other stuff might not happen exactly the way you wanted it to, but we're going to make sure your top priorities are accomplished." It's helpful, because if you don't do that work, then you don't prioritize it and everything is just as important. So then, the color of the curtains is important. But if we sat down and said, "Color of the curtains, not the most important thing in the world," then we're all on the same page when we go into production. It should never be positioned as, "You're going to freak out and not get what you want." It's positioned as, "It's hard to accomplish everything, so help us know what's most important."
HD: And that's our philosophy. So when we start to talk to filmmakers, if we're trying to figure out if we're going to get married and make this project together — because it is a years-long process — we are getting better at that vibe-check up front. If we start to talk to someone and we think they're really not ready for the kinds of flexibility required or whatever, we might refer them in a different direction. And we admit, we're wrong sometimes!
In terms of looking at budgets, are there certain things within these small indies that you feel very strongly about prioritizing? Or, conversely, are there areas you like to save money?
TS: We like to make sure the crew is getting paid a decent wage. We're not paying a lot, but we do a lot to try to make sure there's some equity. Or at least that there's not a lot of discrepancy. We don't have a specific percentage quota, but it's usually something where everyone is being paid the same or close to the same. That's a big priority. You're doing this more than once, so you want to have a bunch of people who like working with you and feel respected. So with both crew and cast, we want everyone to feel like they're not getting worked too hard, they're getting paid a decent enough wage, they're not getting taken advantage of, and just that everyone feels like a part of the team rather than a cog in the machine. Genuinely, that's the only way these things get made.
HD: And then making sure everything is servicing what is on screen. It's really easy to have certain expenses get high because that's typically what they are. Frankly, finding a really good lawyer who's not going to take up ten percent of your budget on a small film is really important. And there are those great lawyers who love film and will give you a different rate because you're a small movie.
Do you see through lines between the different films you've done? What types of films are you interested in?
HD: I think we're both very into director-driven projects. On any given night, Ted and I will watch a different type of movie. But if we can agree that a script we're reading is really good, really intentional, that feels like a green flag.
TS: I've been trying to figure this out. Because I can think of things that fit into the director-driven umbrella that weren’t for us. We typically don't go for certain types of horror that’s a little too intense or grotesque. There are things, even things I like, that feel like they don't fit with what we do. Things that are super cool in the wrong way. Not that all the films are earnest, but I think all the filmmakers are earnest — and often quite nerdy and in love with film. You can feel that in a lot of the films we do.
Is there a question that you like to ask in interviews that gives you a sense of, A) the director's temperament and whether they'll be good to work with, and B) their earnestness?
HD: One thing that's interesting is asking if they have a group of people they work with who they'll bring to this film. Because if someone has directed and produced before and no one comes along with them, it usually means they're not very pleasant to work with. And I'm not saying first-time directors should have a whole stacked crew list, but usually they say, "I've been collaborating with this person and it would be really great if we could bring them on." That's a great way to know if someone is collaborative and pleasant to work with.
TS: And then asking people who have worked with someone about them.
I know you're not trying to make money hand over fist given the types of films you've made. But I'm curious about maintaining a sustainable business within an indie sphere where by all accounts it is incredibly difficult to even recoup and break even right now.
TS: We've been lucky that we've had a few that have recouped and a few that have broken even. And all of them have at least sold, so we've gotten some return. But I think this is a big reason we've started to explore distribution ourselves. We think there are ways to try to create slightly more equitable models. Trying to help build the ecosystem. If we can have slightly better deals with gross corridors so the investors are getting some money back as the movie makes money, that's really important. But even if we're not distributing the movie, we're a little more hands on than we used to be in the distribution of the movie to try to make sure that it can grow and have its best life. But the beauty is that what we've found is in this space is that the movies that do succeed are the weird, specific ones. So you can't really take a guess beyond if we both think it's cool and weird.
HD: We always aim to work on films that, regardless of a sale, we're really proud of. You can't just run a business on being proud. But that's something important to consider up front. If this doesn't do what we want it to do, are we still going to feel good about having spent all our time and energy and money making something? But I think what Ted said is right. It's almost become a mantra, where each year people are like, "Let's see what sells out of Sundance" or "Let's see what happens in the market." And I think the two of us have gotten to a point where we feel we need to start creating some change from within. If we can see a model that can be more filmmaker friendly and investor friendly for these smaller films, and also is sustainable for a distributor, let's try it and see.
Tell me more about what the distribution part looks like.
TS: We just bought our first film, Dead Lover, with James Belfer’s Cartuna Pictures. James has already set up the blu-ray business. And we had been talking for a few months prior to acquiring the film. I think the way it looks is, we've seen a lot of deals, we've sold a lot of movies, so we have a basic understanding of the structures we find more beneficial to the filmmakers. We don't have the same overhead as those companies. We don't have to have so many films because we have so much staff. So the idea is to be more boutique. We're not reinventing the wheel. What we can do that other people can't is move quickly and be really flexible. That's hard for a bigger company to do. So we can take a movie like Dead Lover and do a really specific, curated tour prior to the theatrical release to try and generate more buzz and find the audience for this film and make sure they know about it.
And then be a little unconventional in how it's shown. One thing that Hundreds of Beavers did was, it plays at whatever theater for a week. If that theater is booked for the next month, they can't bring it back. But if they want to bring it back in two months, who cares? It doesn't matter if the movie plays for a week and then two nights and a month. If it's selling and the theater's happy, we want to keep bringing it back. We want to find ways to keep changing the model. Not disrupting it. But we're going to be more flexible. Just like when you produce film independently. We can do things that a studio can't because we're small.
Does it feel like there's a threshold that some of these little movies have trouble crossing in terms of revenue? And then, does it feel like that means there's a budget number you can't go beyond?
TS: Yes and no. There are definitely small budget movies that are a little too big. It is a thing you kind of have to scale a little bit. There are obviously exceptions. There are few movies the size of Hundreds of Beavers that are going to make over a million dollars like that one did. That's why a lot of people want to worry about the talent. They believe that'll help elevate the gross, and it often does. But it's also a game of how much can you spend to get the movie noticed? And we're trying to test the limits of that ceiling. If we can find more creative ways to market, more creative ways to get the audience engaged, then maybe down the road we can build a little bit of an audience that knows to watch out for our films. The industry is going through such an insane change. There's no reason to not believe that as people are starting to get back into going to theaters, there are audiences that will go out and see indie movies. You kind of have to train them. But maybe after several years, if there are a bunch of these movies they want to see, you start to re-train them, and then maybe it'll build a whole ecosystem. Maybe not.
It also feels to me like there's an increasingly stark difference between big Hollywood movies and these smaller indies. As the middle has basically gone away, the question for consumers is: Do you want something that's mass produced or made by people?
HD: And I do think that people are really desiring films that don't feel mass produced. I think more and more there is an audience asking for interesting films that feel different from the last one you saw. That's one of the things that keeps us persevering in this industry. We know there's that appetite.
It might be good to then talk about Tendaberry and Vulcanizadora, two recent releases from you guys, in that context. What drew you to those films? And how are audiences responding?
TS: I think what drew us was the filmmakers in both instances. We'd seen and loved Haley [Elizabeth Anderson]'s work. And her approach was like nothing we'd ever done before. And that made it really hard to make, honestly. That was one we were really, really involved in from a producing standpoint. It was a fun challenge. I wouldn't do that every year. Because making a movie over the course of so much time can be really difficult. And I think it's starting to find its audience. Mubi was kind of the perfect place for that to go. I'm getting more and more people messaging me over the last couple of days being like, "Man, I just saw your movie Tendaberry on Mubi. This is so great."
And with Vulcanizadora, Oscilloscope has done such a good job with Joel's movies in the past. And they've done such a great job with this. The critical reception's been better than I think we expected. And that’s a weird, dark, but very funny and beautiful movie, and I am really happy people are starting to discover it.
You guys weren’t on set for Vulcanizadora — and it seems like Joel has a whole infrastructure set up — so what did you feel like you were able to bring to that one? Was it mostly financial?
TS: No. There was that. But there was a lot of creative up-front that we worked out with Joel. But Joel knew what he wanted to do. Our creative contribution is always, "We're trying to make sure you're getting the exact best version of whatever your idea is." There was a bit of that. And then on the backside, we've set this film out and we helped a lot to position it properly and help make sure we had all the legal paperwork and all of that stuff.
What are you most proud of?
TS: I think what I'm most proud of is the community we've been a part of building up. We still work with Jane. Almost all of our filmmakers I consider our friends. It feels like there's a beautiful, growing community. I came up working crew, and there was some of that fifteen years ago in New York. But it feels different. The energy feels different. It feels like there are more people making these tiny, really specific movies. I'm sure someone will look back at some point and be like, "This was like a movement." I hope it breaks out and gets more people to watch these movies.
HD: I agree. I feel really proud, and pleasantly surprised, at the culture and the ecosystem we're helping to create. I'm just so thrilled that people want to work with us and believe in what we're doing.
And lastly, do you have goals for the next five years?
TS: Looking forward, I think we'll always want to keep a foot in helping early career filmmakers or filmmakers who are trying things that are new or risky. But we have some bigger things on our slate that we're excited about to play in a slightly larger sandbox. And distribution. Trying to find ways to make the ecosystem as sustainable as possible, where we can have more independent films like this succeed.
Listings
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